tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post3300704661620218731..comments2024-03-13T18:43:56.253+00:00Comments on World Building and Woolgathering: Punth: A Primer - Appendix NSolomon VKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11763252777153908412noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-3188835726858836612020-10-08T23:08:34.396+01:002020-10-08T23:08:34.396+01:00Thanks for the recommendations, SolomonThanks for the recommendations, SolomonHer Christmas Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445850026904816000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-21653726214562017932020-10-08T09:18:05.761+01:002020-10-08T09:18:05.761+01:00The Pillow Book is interesting, if you can twist y...The Pillow Book is interesting, if you can twist yourself into the customs of Japanese court life.<br />I'm quite a fan of Tim Powers: Declare is a good place to start, though The Stress of Her Regard and On Stranger Tides are also worth a look.<br />An earlier blog post referenced Burke. He's not an 'artistic' influence here (no guillotines or sans-culottes), but the ideas of an organic state versus the artificial one is powerful - and this almost maps onto Descriptivist against Prescriptivist debates in linguistics. <br /><br />The Recluce books have a lot of skilled labour, that's true. There's also mages who put in time as scriveners and clerks. Later books are more willing to portray mages in the profession of arms or as agents of government. <br />Order mages tend to be healthier than Chaos-wielders, and less prone to taking on too much power and exploding - but they struggle with violence or causing harm (even surgery). It's a less obvious set of strains.<br />I wouldn't quite say that the Order-based societies quite put everything of the same category into one box. There are, certainly, no pretty floral dresses, but a distinction between the sexes is drawn. It's also worth noting that there are no Gods of Chaos or Order to whisper in anyone's ear - the model for Order societies did not have to look quite this.<br />I see what you mean about the 'Not only this' paragraph. The Puritan influence will be part of that, no doubt. Independence is another part - the characters in the Recluce books don't attend a Church (let alone a state religion) and don't have to deal with the local Squire. Taxes, at least in Order-based societies, seem few. There's also a sense of different proportions - not that this is ever spelt out - that these are not low-celinged cottages, but tall, neat, square farmsteads. The comparison with 19th century America manners becomes that much more distinct when the tech level is so largely medieval.<br />"I’ve read that socially conservative outlooks track with pathogen load in an environment" - that's an interesting thought when applied to Recluce. Solomon VKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763252777153908412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-44558211754768855942020-10-08T03:34:02.804+01:002020-10-08T03:34:02.804+01:00Haha, well the first five obviously. Always meant ...Haha, well the first five obviously. Always meant to get into Burroughs but haven’t yet. So The Saga of Recluce, Declare and Reflections are new to me, as are Chariots and the Pillow book. I read your rundown of the Saga of Recluce and I was pleased by your conceptualization of this:<br />“The magicians of the tale nearly all possess some skill or handicraft that supports them when they aren't doing magic (no Hogwarts for these folk - mostly). It's quite prominent, really - and I should argue that it is part of the charm. (A bit like literary third-person Minecraft - a similar set of joys, I mean to say.)”<br /><br />The idea of manipulating chaos at a cost to oneself is fairly familiar; mutations etc; but the idea of manipulating order magic at a cost to oneself was intriguing in its own way. What effect would that take? It made me think of chaos dwarfs slowly turning to stone from their use of magic<br />It’s an interesting idea that in an order based society they might try and make men and women be the same; try to put everything of a similar category (in this case humans) into one box <br /><br />It’s interesting how we see culture in various times and places; for the paragraph that begins with “not only this”, I would have accepted that as a description of a 19th century eastern English town without too much skepticism. I do see what you’re saying about the American version; perhaps that’s the Puritan influence? Obviously there was some extremely Wild West in that period but I think what you’re describing held true from the Midwest through Deseret, and was probably a common enough mode further west even if it was periodically interrupted by revivalists, bandits and civil war demobs. Just like you, I’m working off of cultural hand-me-downs.<br />I’ve read that socially conservative outlooks track with pathogen load in an environment; if true, that might be one factor leading to that kind of simple, sturdy and polite conduct among frontier communities when somebody isn’t raising hell due to the weak law enforcement <br /><br />Pleased to see that you also read SSCHer Christmas Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445850026904816000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-7117963303293647492020-10-05T17:12:38.746+01:002020-10-05T17:12:38.746+01:00You see, now you've got me wondering which of ...You see, now you've got me wondering which of the above are which......Solomon VKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763252777153908412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-17261955863467617312020-10-05T17:10:54.286+01:002020-10-05T17:10:54.286+01:00I have, though it would have been between concepti...I have, though it would have been between conception and completion. Perhaps 'Tower of Babylon' seemed so perfectly historical a fantasy that folding it into Punth & Terrae Vertebrae would have seemed wrong to me.<br />'Seventy-Two Letters' is probably also relevant for the combination of language, magic and hierarchy. Solomon VKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763252777153908412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-17534403750726110252020-10-05T16:24:36.523+01:002020-10-05T16:24:36.523+01:00I'm glad to find new works that are mixed in a...I'm glad to find new works that are mixed in among ones I recognize and respect, thanks for the list SolomonHer Christmas Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09445850026904816000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-52310308472509979852020-10-05T15:36:06.502+01:002020-10-05T15:36:06.502+01:00Have you read Ted Chiang's Stories of your Lif...Have you read Ted Chiang's Stories of your Life? The first story - "Tower of Babylon" - is required reading for all Mesopotamian fantasists.Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3133932512864546561.post-24320446170573681822020-10-03T15:34:14.943+01:002020-10-03T15:34:14.943+01:00I should probably add to this list (for the sake o...I should probably add to this list (for the sake of wider reading rather than specific inspiration) David Foster Wallace's 1999 essay 'Authority and American Usage', collected in the 2005 book Consider the Lobster.Solomon VKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763252777153908412noreply@blogger.com